I am a terrible clay shooter!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:07 pm
Went out with some buddies today to do some target shooting. We also shot at some clays, which is what I have been really looking forward to doing since the last time (the last time was actually my first time I took a small try, where I missed three clays) This time I shot a lot more than last - I am going to guess I tried maybe 35 - 40 clays and hit two. Ugh. I thought I might be better this time as I read up on shooting this way, as well as watching some videos. I realise this is not at all as good as having someone who actually knows what they are doing helping with some personal instruction, but for the time being, this is the best I can do. Anyway, I was somewhat disappointed with my results today. The weird part is that the two I got, I really got. They were different - almost like they were in slow motion. The rest, not so much. Is it normal to suck so bad at first? My two friends said it took getting out and shooting probably 6 times or so before they had much consistency.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:08 am
Sometimes watching folks break birds - it seems like it is SOOOOO easy, then when it comes time, well, it just isn't that way.
Without watching you, It's hard to say, but a couple of questions come to mind.
Have you been doing a lot of rifle/pistol shooting lately? A lot of folks, including me, have trouble going back and forth between the two disciplines. The tendency is to tense up and to stop your swing when you get a good sight picture - which is the last thing you want to do shooting a shotgun. If you stop your swing, you'll shoot way behind the birds.
Are you shooting with one eye closed, or both eyes open? With a moving target, you need depth perception to help guage the speed of the bird, so you need to try to shoot with both eyes open.
And finally, are you dropping your lead hand in order to watch the bird break? I really have to watch out for this. Follow-through is critical with a shotgun. And along the same lines, are you lifting your face away from the stock? Same reason, and same result. :cry:
What kind of clays were you shooting? A regular sporting clays course, or just birds off a thrower?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:12 am
Welcome to world of clays! It is an awesome sport although it can be incredibly frustrating at first. Hang in there and keep practicing and you will get better in time. I would stick to "trap" to begin as its generally the easiest of the clay shooting sports to start with.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:36 am
WOW!
Great videos!
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:02 pm
BPskeeter wrote:Sometimes watching folks break birds - it seems like it is SOOOOO easy, then when it comes time, well, it just isn't that way.


Absolutely agree.

BPskeeter wrote:Without watching you, It's hard to say, but a couple of questions come to mind.
Have you been doing a lot of rifle/pistol shooting lately? A lot of folks, including me, have trouble going back and forth between the two disciplines. The tendency is to tense up and to stop your swing when you get a good sight picture - which is the last thing you want to do shooting a shotgun. If you stop your swing, you'll shoot way behind the birds.


I never thought about this, but I think this could well be a major problem for me. I have always done rifle stuff, and almost no shotgun. In fact I have shot more shotgun the last three times I have been out this year than the rest of my life. I also have never shot a shotgun at moving targets. I have been a rifle guy for my whole shooting life. While shooting yesterday, we shot a bunch of rifle first. From the videos posted below, by DHonovich, I can really see the guy do a good follow through, and I absolutely did not do that. I suspect that by the time I pulled the trigger, I was coming to a stop. I will have to test this the next time I go out.

BPskeeter wrote:Are you shooting with one eye closed, or both eyes open? With a moving target, you need depth perception to help guage the speed of the bird, so you need to try to shoot with both eyes open.


I had read about keeping both eyes open, so I was generally doing that yesterday.

BPskeeter wrote:And finally, are you dropping your lead hand in order to watch the bird break? I really have to watch out for this. Follow-through is critical with a shotgun. And along the same lines, are you lifting your face away from the stock? Same reason, and same result. :cry:


Again, it could very well be that I was doing one or both. I will have to test this next time.

BPskeeter wrote:What kind of clays were you shooting? A regular sporting clays course, or just birds off a thrower?


Just off the thrower. Same spot in the air, and same position on the ground.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:04 pm
DHonovich wrote:Welcome to world of clays! It is an awesome sport although it can be incredibly frustrating at first. Hang in there and keep practicing and you will get better in time. I would stick to "trap" to begin as its generally the easiest of the clay shooting sports to start with.

http://www.netelemark.com/cheat_sheet_fixed.html


Thanks for the links and the encouragement. I watched the videos, and I think I have learned some key things. I can't wait to get back out there and do some shooting! :twisted:
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:12 pm
uberkermit wrote:Went out with some buddies today to do some target shooting. We also shot at some clays, which is what I have been really looking forward to doing since the last time (the last time was actually my first time I took a small try, where I missed three clays) This time I shot a lot more than last - I am going to guess I tried maybe 35 - 40 clays and hit two. Ugh. I thought I might be better this time as I read up on shooting this way, as well as watching some videos. I realise this is not at all as good as having someone who actually knows what they are doing helping with some personal instruction, but for the time being, this is the best I can do. Anyway, I was somewhat disappointed with my results today. The weird part is that the two I got, I really got. They were different - almost like they were in slow motion. The rest, not so much. Is it normal to suck so bad at first? My two friends said it took getting out and shooting probably 6 times or so before they had much consistency.



Not a great box bird shooter myserlf. :)Was always a better rifle shot than a box bird shot. :)

For myself I believe all the rifle shooting I did in the past has not beem good for my clay target shooting.I also find the clay targetrs go much faster than most birds I hunt/shoot at in the uplands.I believe this also effects the lead I use on clay targets.I guees if I shot more often I would get on to it better. :) Just my thoughts on the subject. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:41 pm
A lot of people don't think about it, but the stance for rifle and shotgun are totally different.
In rifle, you want to lock your hips in solidly to anchor you in that spot, so that you CANNOT move side-to-side. In shotgun, you want your hips fluid, so that you CAN pivot side to side. A lot of experienced rifle shooters try to lock their hips, and then swing with their shoulders. :(
They do actually get lucky sometimes and hit a few birds!
When we are teaching new shooters, I usually get them laughing at me, as I try to demonstrate by doing a shooter's version of the twist. It sure ain't pretty, but it gets the point across.
Sometimes, I even raise the heel of my back foot ever so slightly. By doing so, I find that I actually am allowing my back leg to drive my hips as I swing. Remember, more of your weight should be on your front leg. In rifle, the weight would be equally spaced.
For a person with no natural talent like myself, it is esential to concentrate on te fundamentals of stance, swing, and follow through to ever break any birds.
Let us know how you do the next time you go out! :D
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:47 pm
28 gauge wrote: Not a great box bird shooter myserlf. :)Was always a better rifle shot than a box bird shot. :)

For myself I believe all the rifle shooting I did in the past has not beem good for my clay target shooting.I also find the clay targetrs go much faster than most birds I hunt/shoot at in the uplands.I believe this also effects the lead I use on clay targets.I guees if I shot more often I would get on to it better. :) Just my thoughts on the subject. :)


So would you say that shooting at real birds is a little easier than clays (because they fly slower)?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:04 pm
BPskeeter wrote:A lot of people don't think about it, but the stance for rifle and shotgun are totally different.
In rifle, you want to lock your hips in solidly to anchor you in that spot, so that you CANNOT move side-to-side. In shotgun, you want your hips fluid, so that you CAN pivot side to side. A lot of experienced rifle shooters try to lock their hips, and then swing with their shoulders. :(
They do actually get lucky sometimes and hit a few birds!
When we are teaching new shooters, I usually get them laughing at me, as I try to demonstrate by doing a shooter's version of the twist. It sure ain't pretty, but it gets the point across.
Sometimes, I even raise the heel of my back foot ever so slightly. By doing so, I find that I actually am allowing my back leg to drive my hips as I swing. Remember, more of your weight should be on your front leg. In rifle, the weight would be equally spaced.
For a person with no natural talent like myself, it is esential to concentrate on te fundamentals of stance, swing, and follow through to ever break any birds.


Yes! I forgot about this too. From what I tried to learn previously, by having the motion in the legs/hips, it is a way smoother swing - arm movement is too quick and jerky. The guy in these videos talks about it a bit.







When I first watched these, I was thinking I was going to do really well, as the student in the video looks like he has never really shot at much before, yet he looks like a pro when he shoots. (In other words, this must be easy! haha) I like one of the comments on the third video relating to this:

I hate that man. How can he learn that fast. He shoots 3 times and hit 3 times. I practice and i get better slowly. But he gets it right away. I hate him. I hate him. I hate him.


BPskeeter wrote:Let us know how you do the next time you go out! :D


I absolutely will. I am going to make a bunch of notes from this thread and the videos, and do my best to do better. Hopefully I will have some good news. Right now I need to get my hands on my own gun - I think that would be helpful. I read somewhere that it can be useful to practise say 10 mounts a day in front of a mirror, just to make sure everything is good, and so you get into a good habit. This is something that I really want to try, but it is going to be a bit before that can happen.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:06 pm
uberkermit wrote:
28 gauge wrote: Not a great box bird shooter myserlf. :)Was always a better rifle shot than a box bird shot. :)

For myself I believe all the rifle shooting I did in the past has not beem good for my clay target shooting.I also find the clay targetrs go much faster than most birds I hunt/shoot at in the uplands.I believe this also effects the lead I use on clay targets.I guees if I shot more often I would get on to it better. :) Just my thoughts on the subject. :)


So would you say that shooting at real birds is a little easier than clays (because they fly slower)?



A clay target, say at skeet shooting, goes on a set course at any station, once you learn the right lead for each station you can get quite good at it.The target may be going faster but it is the same course each time.In the field the birds I have found , by in large ,go slower than a clay target.They do however not usually go the same course.They go when they want , not when you say pull and unlike on a skeet field where the bird always stays in sight ,a bird in the field can disappear in the thick woods long before you get a shot off.

For myself and the birds I hunt, mostly partridge(ruffed grouse) in the uplands, I find correct shotgun stance most times does not work for me.Too much walking ,birds jumping while you go under a fallen tree,getting off a quick shot at a bird before it disappears in the woods, etc.These types of shots do not allow for proper stance and swing.Most of the time it is get the shotgun to your shoulder as fast as you can and fire before the bird gets out of sight.

I have seen skeet shooters who are just like a machine at the range.Pull, bang,powder.These same fellows in the partridge woods have no better results on partridge than I do and in some caes worse than myself.On the range however it is a different matter. :)

Also in the field it comes into play your hunting ability.To be able to find birds and to approch them in a way where by you can get the best shot you can get. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:35 pm
28 gauge wrote: A clay target, say at skeet shooting, goes on a set course at any station, once you learn the right lead for each station you can get quite good at it.The target may be going faster but it is the same course each time.In the field the birds I have found , by in large ,go slower than a clay target.They do however not usually go the same course.They go when they want , not when you say pull and unlike on a skeet field where the bird always stays in sight ,a bird in the field can disappear in the thick woods long before you get a shot off.

For myself and the birds I hunt, mostly partridge(ruffed grouse) in the uplands, I find correct shotgun stance most times does not work for me.Too much walking ,birds jumping while you go under a fallen tree,getting off a quick shot at a bird before it disappears in the woods, etc.These types of shots do not allow for proper stance and swing.Most of the time it is get the shotgun to your shoulder as fast as you can and fire before the bird gets out of sight.

I have seen skeet shooters who are just like a machine at the range.Pull, bang,powder.These same fellows in the partridge woods have no better results on partridge than I do and in some caes worse than myself.On the range however it is a different matter. :)

Also in the field it comes into play your hunting ability.To be able to find birds and to approch them in a way where by you can get the best shot you can get. :)


Good to know these things. I figure if I can't hit squat with clays, I will hit even less "real birds." But I will keep in mind that they are not the same thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:18 pm
Thanks for all the great advice and videos. I for one can use all the help I can get!

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