Model 37 Barrel Crack?

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.22LR
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:46 pm
I pulled my Model 37 out of case this morning to clean it up for squirrel slaying this year, and I noticed a very thin streak about an inch and a half long along the side of the barrel, that I had never noticed before. After careful examination I was completely puzzled by the matter, so I grabbed my older brothers and noticed that his had multiple streaks of the same classification. Most of which were longer than the only one on mine. I can run my finger across it and feel my nail snag it so it's carved through the finish.
Is this an early sign of a cracked barrel or do I have pre-season paranoia? Could this be a tool mark? My particular shotgun has several due to its vintage manufacture. Just an average scratch? There is no finish over it so I believe it's a scratch, but it runs almost perfectly with the lines in the barrels steel. Being that my brothers has multiple is it just a manufacturing by-product of forming the barrel? Our shotguns are separated by over a decade of production (1940-1952?) mine being the 1940 so I don't know if it ever changed. Also, this is definitely not the engraved line put on the barrel to show it's exact center for machining purposes. That sits right by the breach, and this mark is a couple inches up from the breach end of the barrel.
I have never shot steel shot or slugs through this barrel the entire time I owned it, and based upon its previous owner and condition I would say he didn't put anything like that through it either. Any info would be a lifesaver. I'd feel a lot better if I knew my barrel wasn't a chunk of high polish scrap metal.

.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:02 am
Pictures would help.

.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:27 am
If you are concerned, have a credited gunsmith look at them. It doesn't matter who tells you what, you are the one shooting it, so it's your gun and your safety. On that note, I have many Ithacas and have seen a great deal of Ithacas and have never experienced a cracked barrel. I have seen bulged barrels, but not cracked. Get them checked. Donald

.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:33 am
What exactly do you mean by a "bulged barrel" Donald? Do you mean like extreme pressure caused the steel to expand? Are "bulged barrels" dangerous to shoot as well? The heaviest load I've put through this shotgun since I got is 1 1/4 ounce high brass game loads, and I've only got maybe 35 of those through it. Like I said, it's just a small streak, but I suppose looks and be deceiving. And 1977cutcher I will post photos later tonight after I get my magnifying glass so I can provide decent photos. I'll probably call my local gunsmith tonight and have it checked out sometime this week as well.

.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:54 am
This is NOT my shotgun. I got this off of Google images, but my streak is quite similar to the ones on this shotgun. My streak is also right around the same spot of the streak close to the hand guard below where it says Ithaca N.Y. Made in USA. At first I thought it might be hand guard wear but it's too high.

http://pictures.gunauction.com/504669/1 ... bnail0.jpg

.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:03 pm
I am not seeing anything unusual in the attached photo. However I do have a thought. Is it possible that the forearm was cycled at some point while the barrel was being replaced / removed causing slide like wear on the barrel finish "in the wrong spot".

.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:07 pm
I had a horrible case of "dumb ass syndrome" while I was figuring out how to take the thing apart after I bought it. I don't recollect pumping it in any manner while fidgeting with the barrel that would cause such a scratch, but I suppose stranger things have happened in these parts and I bought it used so someone else could have done it. I'm still going to have my gunsmith look at it however. The stock is due for repairs as it is so it will just be an extra line item on the bill (pending nothing is dangerous). I planned on getting a looser chocked barrel for it as well, so it would be an expensive bummer, but not the end of the world. I will not be posting photos, since my camera has to low of a resolution to take decent ones. I'll just let the smithy handle that one. Thanks everyone, I'll post about how all this turns out later this week.
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.270 WIN
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:20 pm
Well

that is the thickest part of the barrel and it sure looks to me like the action was cycled with the barrel turned and not held into position.

as far as finding a looser choked barrel, I think you are in for a little eye opening. the 1940 barrels were in the era of when the barrels were fitted to each receiver. barrels like that are no longer made. if you can find one for your specific gauge, expect to pay close to 200 for the barrel (or more) and then another 75 plus back and forth shipping (or more) to a gunsmith that understands how to fit an old Ithaca barrel to a receiver it wasn't made for

there is a reason the serial nbr on your barrels match the serial nbr on the front face of the receiver

.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:49 pm
drcook, I knew what I was in for when I bought it. I picked it up at the gun show and saw it had a five digit serial number and knew it was gonna be a pain. I wanted an older one after an old timer at my local gun club told me everything on the earlier models is hand fitted, checkered, and engraved. I'm sure most will tell me that it isn't worth the money, however if you saw my shotgun you would understand. The craftsmanship on that thing is utterly amazing. I bought this shotgun as a gift to myself for graduation and knew I wanted something that would last the rest of my life.
With what I have into it, and by the time I'm done messing with it I'll have a pre-war quality rabbitslayer with two separate barrels that cost less than a modern produced 870 Wingmaster, and is probably higher quality to. Not to slander Remington, but I haven't been as impressed with their more modern firearms as I have with their older manufacturing. A disappointing trend these days. By the way do you know where I can find an 26in Improved Cylinder barrel for this thing? Full is a bit tight for rabbits.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:53 pm
what gauge ? that you didn't say

.22LR
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:49 pm
Sorry, It's getting a little late where i'm at. It's a 12 gauge 2 3/4 only.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:33 am
1977cutcher wrote:I am not seeing anything unusual in the attached photo.


That's what *I* thought. And then...

Yesterday, on my "local" forum, I posted an old photo of my late Dad's M37 to illustrate that another member was missing a part on their gun. Today, I checked the thread for new posts and looked, once again, at the photo. Ah, maybe *this* is the mark that Flax meant:

Image

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:17 am
I am checking with a local source that has barrels. I asked if he had a 26" I-C.

However, here is a 28" mod for not too bad a price

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ithaca-37-12ga- ... 3a84ecd33e

you could always have it opened up to I-C. as far as 26 vs 28 for myself I don't notice that 2'. I would notice a 30" though and my wife's 24" 16ga barrel is pretty noticeable.

I will let you know what the local source says.

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:04 am
Chaos, as long as you can run your finger across it and feel your finger catch it through the finish then we have a winner. Mine looks just a little different and less in width. Maybe on account of the blued finish. Nearly same spot to. Is it just the action bar wearing on the barrel? I figured that wouldn't gouge quite that much. Mine is a very fine scratch as well.
Dr. Cook, Not a bad barrel but their is a fair bit of pitting on it. There seems to be quite a bit so I don't think that a little re-bluing will solve that case. I'm watching another with an OBO on it listed at $175. Looks to be considerably nicer. It's about mid-50's production and would probably clean up real well. Mod will probably do everything else I would need, with the right load behind it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:17 am
Flax wrote:Chaos, as long as you can run your finger across it and feel your finger catch it through the finish then we have a winner.


Next time I open the cabinet, I'll see if I can remember to take a look. I'll also take a look at my *other* DSPS. I use it a *lot* more than that one and it's an identical model. It should be interesting to compare the two.

But, I've had a thought (just the *one*):

Is it just the action bar wearing on the barrel?


The forend has a thin, steel tube liner. It has a "moon shaped" cut out for the barrel to run through. Perhaps the sharp(ish) corner of that cut out is to blame. Does the forend twist much as you stroke it? Is there much play in the forend, generally?

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:26 am
drcook = David R not Dr. but thanks for the compliment.

My local source does not have one, he checked and got back to me.

I see that one. Not a bad barrel.

I know a lot of folks simply don't like poly chokes, but they really work and are effective. For hunting rabbits you can dial in the distance depending on whether you are in the brush or what.

Check this barrel out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ithaca-37-12ga- ... 3a84ecd210

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:58 am
Chaos, that seems like a perfectly reasonable theory. I honesty beleive that might be the culprit. If you forgot to retard the bolt before trying to set the barrel in place, this could certainly happen. I've never done that one, I've always forgotten to retard the bolt when removing the barrel however. I'll fiddle with it when I get home and see if the forensics line up. Also there is a fair deal of play in my for end. I suppose a hard pump and holding it the wrong way could cause issue. By the way, where did you get that nice looking of a police special? I've been dying to get one for a truck gun.
drcook who isn't really a medical doctor, but I suppose your the barrel doctor for the moment. That's a nice looking poly. I know most people tend to run when they see those, but since I would still have my original barrel that wouldn't be a problem if resale became an issue. I do know there can be some issues with those if the job wasn't done right, improperly straightened barrels and such causing horrible inaccuracy at a distance. Is there anyway to tell by the photos? And is there any makers of poly chokes I should be wary of? Who makes a quality one? I don't know much about these so I'm a little on the deep end on this one.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:08 am
that is actually one made by poly choke themselves

http://www.poly-choke.com/

it is hard to mess them up on installation if the person doing it was halfway competent. I would say you have no more chance of getting a bad poly-choked barrel than getting a bent barrel from someone.

I just pointed that one out because you going to invest another 100.00 or so (with shipping and insurance both ways) sending the receiver and barrel to a gunsmith who understands how to fit the barrels unless you are fortunate to have a gunsmith local who understands.

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:29 am
Doesn't sound bad. I'll send that guy some questions tonight about it. I live in Southern Michigan so I might just be lucky enough to have Ithaca themselves do it for me. I know they'll change over older barrels to newer ones, but I don't know if they fit older ones to older guns. I'll have to call I guess. Thanks drcook.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:24 pm
Flax wrote:I suppose a hard pump and holding it the wrong way could cause issue.


If other people's M37s exhibit this mark, it'll be interesting to see if there's a difference between guns used by left- and right-handed shooters. I'm wondering whether in "loose" guns, the forend gets twisted as one pumps it. If so, then the *side* from which it is pumped may make a difference. (Maybe, just the forend *wood* is doing this. It has the same cut out and I know that *mine's* a little loose.)

By the way, where did you get that nice looking of a police special? I've been dying to get one for a truck gun.


I didn't get into shooting shotguns until my late father left me with a few "toys" to play with. One of 'em was a "Section.2" (UK-speak for a restricted-magazine gun held on a ShotGun Certificate) M37 DSPS in M&P livery. When I acquired a FireArms Certificate, I could buy a couple of Section.1 (unrestricted) shotguns. Before I had a chance to rush out and get a Saiga 12, or whatever, a local dealer offered me an identical DSPS that was S.1.

I've been shooting PSG using that M37 and a Chiappa 1887 ever since:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MisterMcHaos/videos

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:45 pm
but I don't know if they fit older ones to older guns. I'll have to call I guess. Thanks drcook.


No they don't.

However Les Hovencamp does and Gerald Kuthy does. You would get a good job from either.

Gerald is a local gunsmith that I just found and is known to Ron Sharp and others in the Ithaca trade. A friend has used him before and he has good recommendations and I am buying a 16ga barrel (post 855,000) from him myself

Gerald R Kuthy
Custom Blue LLC
740 498 8790

Les Hovencamp. Les was the head smith at Ithaca in New York

http://www.diamondgunsmithing.com/ <<<=== Les contact info

Too bad you missed the tour of the Ithaca plant this summer. It was pretty cool. I live 90 miles from them here in Ohio.

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:30 pm
Thanks drcook, I'll give Gerald a try considering if he's near you, then he's in Ohio, and the last thing I want is a massive shipping charge sending this thing to New York. I have heard great things about Les however. I'll do some barrel shopping and see how I come out then, But getting the stock repaired is my priority for the moment, but I can do that on my own with a little help from my father, so I'll see how things go.
I would have loved to hit that tour. That would have been a time. I could have hit the Cabelas in Dundee and CMP at Camp Perry on my way down too.
Also, being that you own a 16ga, do you know if Ithaca ever made a 16ga deerslayer? I've got a buddy who has gone a little off the rocker on 16ga and would like to know. I told him it's possible, but 16ga m37's are rare as it is, and a deer slayer considering that I've never heard of it is probably quite rare. Has he got a shot in the dark?

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:49 pm
Chaos, I believe your theory may in fact be correct. I just took a glance at my brothers m37, and his has a multitude of similar scratches, on the opposite side of the barrel. His shotgun has been carried all over the backside of beyond in the service of our great grandfather, who I'm not sure, but could have been a lefty. I never noticed his before because all of his marks had been blued over when my father had gran dads shotgun re-worked. I wonder if there is a difference between markings like this corn-cob style forends ends and the beaver tails you see on later sporting models? My hand guard is also quite loose as well. I guess vintage shotguns work in mysterious ways. I arrived to shotguns later as well. I grew up shooting .22's at pop cans out by my deer blind. Until this past year the only shotgun experience I had was with slug guns. I plan to get off that band wagon and jump on another.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:14 pm
Here you go,

just what the dr. ordered :roll: :roll: :lol:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =366067709

a 16ga Deerslayer with a rifled barrel and a vent rib barrel.

yes they did. smoothbores being more common

I've got a buddy who has gone a little off the rocker on 16ga and would like to know. I told him it's possible, but 16ga m37's are rare as it is,


they are ? in the 2nd picture is the one with the poly-choke in the 1st after going through partial restoration, in the 1st picture is a bare receiver, in the 2nd after I built the gun for my wife out of that receiver

I have a friend who is going to sell his 1948 Ithaca 37 16ga. The wood has been professionally restored by a former Ithaca employee (not Les) and the metal is in great shape. I will have pictures soon. If he is interested PM me his phone nbr. Even if he is not interested get his phone nbr. He probably would like to chat a bit. As you can see, I kind of like the 16ga myself. My 12's are getting lonely staying at home.

Image

Image

.22LR
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:00 pm
DAMN! If I had the funding I'd buy it. That's in primo shape. He's gonna flip when I show him that. Thanks drcook. You just made my buddies day. I think I know where his next paycheck is going.
All my experience with m37's has been from the 40's and 50's. Are the newer ones from the 60's, 70's, 80's and so on as high quality as the old ones? The reason I ask is that since this 16ga must be newer production with a rifled barrel. I'm wondering if mine could be comparable in quality to this one, in the case my buddy wants to "try before you buy".
I don't see a lot of 16ga in my area. That's why I've never dealt with a lot of them Just about everything I see is 12 or 20, with the exception of the 28 every once in a while at the local gun club. He got his from another friend of ours for 40 bucks because he never used it (It's an H&R single shot NRA commemorative, don't get worked up). Couldn't turn it down. Know hes got the fever and wants a pump.
And you have quite the collection. I'm envious. Who did that stock for you? Mine has a crack in it and requires attention, and I doubt I will get to it anytime soon.
After seeing your impressive collection, I think I might just buy another m37 rather than a spare barrel. after the 250+ I might spend on the barrel, I'd rather shell out another $150 and get the whole gun.
I'll get ahold of my buddy for you. He's quite tricky to get ahold of on account of he never leaves his cell phone on. I'll see if he has the funding, and point him in you direction either way. Also, whats that buddy of yours want for that 1948?
By the way, I love all the corncob fore ends. Makes me think of my great granddads old 20ga.

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