Ithaca Model 37 Troubleshooting

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:52 pm
I would start with a good cleaning of the action. Take the whole thing apart making sure there are no dents in mag tube and that the magazine spring is working well. During the cleaning process one should check to ensure the little spring on the shell stop is in good condition. The older models use a screw to hold the stop into place, be sure to be gentle with it. The newer models use a simple pin, not to much to go wrong there.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:57 am
Update on my 28 gauge Model 37 that will drop shells out when cycling with reloads. Figured out by carefully watching while I cycled loads that the shell stop does not release with reloads,using a caliper I found that the rim of most of the fired hulls has expanded by .005 to .007 and that is enough to keep the shell stop holding the shell in. This is not the base which gets resized but the rim itself.
I was thinking of taking the shell stop out and stoning off .007, anyone done this and found it works? Or should I box it up and ship it back to Ithaca. Only thing that has kept me from doing it is that their warranty does not cover use with reloads as most manufacturers.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:39 am
I don't know if the factory would do something like this because it would take the shell stop out of spec. If I were to do something like this, I would start by taking .004" out and test, then go to .005" and test again. You would want the absolute bare minimum taken off because a) you have to account for wear and b) it wouldn't take much to make the stop unusable for factory loads.
--Jim
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:21 am
hmm ,,
if i were to go about this i would,,,,

buy another shell stop.
first i'd try the new shell stop ,if it were and odd outa spec part the new shell stop would cure it .

if the new shell stop dosent cure it , then i'd go the raven way taking small amounts off and testing with the ease of mind knowing i'g got the spare origional as a backup

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:07 pm
I have a model 37 12ga that also don't eject some spent shells and i found that winchester slugs are shorter after fired that most and the longer shells just would jam up.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:25 am
It's been a while since I left a post been busy running and gunning. I have a Model 37 which I use for competition and home defense. I keep it loaded next to my bed, in the den, or where ever I am in my home. I some time use the shell stop to unload or just rack the slide to eject the shells. I have noticed that I some times have 2 shells hang up in the chamber. This gun may be loaded for months at a time, 8 rounds all day every day. It's been back too the company early on for timing issues, so I really hope I can avoid sending it in, I have been thinking about just changing the magazine spring? On the M37 how long should I/how long can I leave it loaded, I know about down loading, when should I change magazine spring. Every 6 months or once a year. Got answers?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:27 am
knockout wrote:I know about down loading, when should I change magazine spring. Every 6 months or once a year.


Have you seen this?:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679572

Food for thought...

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:40 am
ChAoS wrote:
knockout wrote:I know about down loading, when should I change magazine spring. Every 6 months or once a year.


Have you seen this?:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679572

Food for thought...

Regards,

Mark.


That is a very interesting thread. I agree with most of it, but will add this. Springs are funny things. They are only as strong and reliable as the entire piece of metal. In other words all it takes is a single defect to fail the entire spring. I have seen a spring last 50 years and fail after 25 rounds. Since they are not expensive, avoid cheaping out on springs. Get the best you can and if it means third party, so be it. the 5 round rule is sound and I do feel that compressing a spring 100% 100% of the time will weaken a spring of lesser quality much faster than one of a high quality. Again, springs are cheap, get spares and just replace them when they fail.
--Jim

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:05 am
Thanks for the info.
I went to the range today after down loading too 5 shells for a couple of days. This was to be a stress test of 100 rounds quick and fast. I used federal target loads 2 3/4 8 shot. The boxes were full of different color shells. I had one jam were 2 shells fed into the chamber, about half way through. O.K. lets back up for trouble shooting. The weapon is normally loaded with Remington HD rounds again full magazine tube. Correct me if I am wrong. The shells fed into the tube past the shell stop, compressing the magazine spring as the spring compresses the force of the spring pushes the shells against the shell stop. Is the strength of the spring enough to cause the metal part of the shell to bend or weaken the shell stop, letting the shells slip past the shell stop. Keeping in mind that the federal and Remington shells may be of different sizes. If I missed any thing in operation correct me.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:15 pm
knockout wrote:Thanks for the info.
I went to the range today after down loading too 5 shells for a couple of days. This was to be a stress test of 100 rounds quick and fast. I used federal target loads 2 3/4 8 shot. The boxes were full of different color shells. I had one jam were 2 shells fed into the chamber, about half way through. O.K. lets back up for trouble shooting. The weapon is normally loaded with Remington HD rounds again full magazine tube. Correct me if I am wrong. The shells fed into the tube past the shell stop, compressing the magazine spring as the spring compresses the force of the spring pushes the shells against the shell stop. Is the strength of the spring enough to cause the metal part of the shell to bend or weaken the shell stop, letting the shells slip past the shell stop. Keeping in mind that the federal and Remington shells may be of different sizes. If I missed any thing in operation correct me.



In a word, no. If it were that strong, you;'d never be able to load a shell and the shell stop is made of hardened steel. Plus, the metal in a shotshell hull is softer than the shellstop. What is going on is either you a shell stop that is out of spec or a broken or faulty shell stop spring. The tolerance of the shell stop are so tight that is doesn't take much to make this not work properly. They will wear but it takes many rounds to do so. The good news is that in either case a fix is simple. Replace either the shell stop or the shell stop spring or repair (bending or stretching) the shell stop.
--Jim

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:44 pm
Hello Everyone. I have a 1974 made Model 37 12 gauge. I had a few problems with it recently while hunting. I had a stuck case using Federal Hi-Brass load. I eventually got it out by disassembling the action. I noticed that the back part of the bolt can move about 1/16th of an inch forward from the slide stop lever. I'm not sure if this is normal or if it could be causing the problem. I also had some mis-fires. The primer was dimpled and the shell went off if given a second try. I had mis-fires before but was using cheap target loads and thought that was the problem. I am thinking of having a gunsmith replace the main spring and give it a thorough cleaning. Has anyone else had this problem? Does this sound like the right way to get it back in working order?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:01 pm
this could end up in a few possible directions so first a few questions..

are all your jams,misfires with federal ammo?

and was the shell stuck in the barrel?or did it come out smoothly after you broke it down?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:16 pm
That's hard to answer. I hadn't fired this gun in a few years before hunting this week. It was either federal or winchester which was giving me the mis-fires. The hard ejection was a first this weekend and it was with Federal ammo.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:54 pm
sometimes ithacas just don't like some brands of shells ,so the first thing is to try a diffrent brand.

i had a hard ejection prob i cured the following way ,
first the barrel was overtighened by the previous owner so i losened it up to normal snuggness and readjused the barrel yoke.
i then polished the chamber with a drill and steel wool

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:41 pm
Would brand of ammo also have something to do with the misfires?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:55 am
LukeW wrote:Would brand of ammo also have something to do with the misfires?



Oh yea, try to avoid the real cheapies.
--Jim

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:22 pm
As the new kid on the block coming lately into this thread I have a long winded question or theory. I have a King Ferry 16 gauge Model 37 which I bought in 1999 or thereabouts. A group of us used to gather on Sunday most every week and shot informal clay games, and this was my main gun. In those days most of the various Marts stocked 16 gauge promo shells. I ran a lot of those "cheap" shells through the gun with nary a problem or concern. That group disbanded after a year or so and the gun ended up in the rear of the safe. Fast forward to our skeet club Wednesday last. I retrieved this fine shotgun from the safe and shot three rounds of skeet with Winchester game loads, #8 shot. Doubles were pretty much out of the question. The eventually extracted hulls exhibited the same expansion as in the pictures member john4all posted last December in this thread. When I tried to remove the barrel for cleaning when I got home, I realized that I had it overly tight. Taking the now clean and appropriately reassembled gun and a hodgepodge of shells to the range today I had no trouble at all and the ejected shells exhibited no signs of unusual expansion. And I say hodgepodge without a hint of hyperbole. Many were paper shells at least 50 years old. Others were shells bought within the last three months. Unfortunately, I had none of the offending shells left. The question is, can an overly tight barrel move forward enough to allow an inappropriate gap in the extractor cuts and allow this odd expansion?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:14 pm
short answer ,
yes

over tightening the mag nut/lug can lead to extraction problems .
its not just the extractors not grabbing right , if enough force is applied i think it can kinda cock the shell in the chamber slightly.

the whole problem is more noticable now in 16's because everything availible is high brass loads
and thats agravated by the fact high brass are accually high steel.
the higher the brass the more to bind

with steel you always hear about diffent "memory" then brass ..
i'm not totaly convinced of that , but i do know that brass thermally will contract faster.

with a correctly tightened barrel if you see the expanded rim ,i suggest you get the headspace looked at

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:13 pm
I had a problem like this on an 80's vintage model 37. I tried the original barrel on a different gun and had no problem. Next I tried different barrels on the problem gun and the problem was still there. My gut told me that the extractors where not lining up quite right in the barrel notches. After a few tries adjusting the yoke on the magazine tube the problem went away. Only gun I have ever had any trouble adjusting the yoke on.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:57 am
I just inherited a Model 37 Deer Slayer (my first Ithaca) from my father in law. He was not a gun person and he had stored it with an empty in the chamber since around 1990. The gun had malfunctioned and the slide would not rack. Upon getting the gun yesterday, I disassembled the gun and got the empty out and gave it a good cleaning, but the slide still "sticks" before you can rack it back all the way. It seems to be sticking on the carrier. Anyone have an idea what might be wrong? I would like to fix it myself if possible.

If I can't fix it, I'm thinking of sending it to Ithaca for repair. The gun means alot to me due to previous owner and the fact that it was made in the year I was born.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:35 am
The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that you got the primary shell stop spring in sideways. Check to see if it the shell stop can move in and out freely. if it doesn't, disassemble, take out the shell stop and spring, put a TINY dab of vaseline on the bottom of the spring and drop it in. the vaseline will hold it steady for you to drop the shell stop back into it. If it isn't this, I'll have to think about it.
--Jim

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:49 pm
Thanks, I will give it a try!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:57 pm
Ordered and installed a new carrier from Ithaca and the gun is working like a charm. Can't wait to shoot it. Ithaca parts were in stock, shipped quickly and high quality! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:59 pm
Picked up m37 only missing the barrel this weekend at a gun show. Tried to cycle some 12ga thought it and it jams up. Seems like the carrier is hanging up on the round. Put a 12 ga slug barrel on to see if it changed but didot help. Could it be a 20 ga?. I looked up the serial number and could only find a date. The number is 371590051 if any one can give me some info it would help.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:07 pm
Looking over my gun and noticed the Spring Shell Stop Screw is missing. I bought a replacement online, along with a new spring. When I slid the trigger assembly out, I expected the shell stop lever to fall out, but it did not. Apparently the pin on the end of the Spring Stop Screw is broken off and still holding the shell stop lever in place. The threaded portion of the screw must have backed out and fell to the ground. I have no idea how or when this screw broke off, but the threaded part of the screw is gone and I can't figure out how to get the rest of it out for replacement. I guess I will have to find a gunsmith who can drill out the pin.
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