What On Earth Is This?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:54 pm
it seems the previous owner never replaced any parts after repairing the slide.
the slide is taking direct recoil impact thus breaking.

I have seen slides with the hook broken off and if repaired correctly should be fine.
however the more breaks the more chances that the dimensions and alignments could be squewed.
how is the bolt buffer and receiver buffer??

ok , the buttstock is held by I believe a 9/16 6pt bolt.after removing it , you can access the receiver buffer screw.

the action spring is held in place by a small "L" pin that's under the trigger pack near the buttstock
often times when the slide slams back on recoil the slide link is swallowed into the action spring tube.(because of weak action spring and bad buffers)
the action spring tube has a flared end just inside the receiver.
since the link gets swallowed, the slide it self slams the flare deforming it.
I suspect the flare is damaged and the L pin is bent/broken or misaligned letting the plunger push past

and lastly the gas system is a dry system ,do not oil or let oil into the piston
if you want to oil for storage , just remember to clean it before shooting

the guns are really simple
remove the slide and bolt off the receiver frame (you did that already)
and push the 2 trigger block pins out to remove the trigger block.
no tools needed.

a lot of people don't like the carrier release,
but that said with a bit of repetition I found it pretty simple.
especially when shooting trap
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:31 pm
Thanks for replying.

twistedoak wrote: the slide is taking direct recoil impact thus breaking.


I haven't actually put a live round into the gun, yet. Given that the action spring managed to break the slide, is that an indication that it's OK, d'you think? (The spring measures 340mm (13-3/8") in its "relaxed" state.)

how is the bolt buffer and receiver buffer??


Well, I've taken the bolt buffer out and there's no sign of obvious damage.

I assume that I have to get the stock off before I can take a dekko at the reciever buffer.

the action spring is held in place by a small "L" pin that's under the trigger pack near the buttstock
often times when the slide slams back on recoil the slide link is swallowed into the action spring tube.(because of weak action spring and bad buffers)
the action spring tube has a flared end just inside the receiver.
since the link gets swallowed, the slide it self slams the flare deforming it.
I suspect the flare is damaged and the L pin is bent/broken or misaligned letting the plunger push past


OK, so I assume that I need to get the trigger pack out to investigate that area.

the gas system is a dry system ,do not oil or let oil into the piston
if you want to oil for storage , just remember to clean it before shooting


Understood.

a lot of people don't like the carrier release,
but that said with a bit of repetition I found it pretty simple.
especially when shooting trap


Yeah, I'm sure that I'll get used to it. I only shoot Sporting when I'm breakin' clays, so time spent faffing isn't an issue. (Except, perhaps, if I have a few "spectators".)

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:47 pm
don't shoot it till you replace both buffers and the action spring.

I highly doubt it was the action spring that broke the slide tip .
my first guess is the slide was out of square after the first repair.
the action spring is roughly 40yrs old,it needs replacing.

I've been told that the action springs out of the factory were a bit shorter then they should have been.
either way , length really isn't the prob , its the compression strength.

you might be able to get a glance at the receiver buffer by looking inside for it , but even so , you won't be able to tell how messed up it is till you remove it.
the both buffers are a type of nylon and age degrade,despite any looks ,, replace them.

yes the trigger pack should be removed
its easy ,just push the 2 pins on the receiver through with a punch by hand
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:09 am
Thanks, 'Oak.

I'd find it hard to believe that the slide was broken when I bought it since the break is so obvious. It's not been fired since I've had it, so I can't see what else it *could've* been except the action spring closing the action. O'course, we won't know if it even *has* a reciever buffer until I investigate further.

I must say that it didn't occur to me that spring pressure could break the slide; I thought it was only *firing* the gun that could do that.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:54 pm
again I highly doubt it was the spring that did it.
in all likelihood the slide was hammered so hard it was a weak spot already.
its probably better it broke now then later after you thought it was all good
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:28 am
twistedoak wrote:its probably better it broke now then later after you thought it was all good


Indeed.

If I *do* get it working, it'll feel damned weird - I'm pretty sure that I'll try to "pump" (or, mebbe, "lever") the forend after each shot... :)

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:55 am
I had the same concern the first time I took a semiautomatic rabbit hunting. However every thing worked out fine and I did not try to pump it.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:05 am
if anything trying to pump it is the least of your problems

after shooting a 51 for awhile I find I got to relearn to pump a 37 when shooting one
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:41 am
Well, guys, when the joyous day arrives that I get to *shoot* the '51, I'll worry about it *then*. :)

By the way, I'd appreciate it if one of you could check out the Pigeon Watch link cited in this thread and see if you get the "full experience", or not. The PW admin says that "guests" should now be able to view the PW thread:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1194

Bye fer now.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:51 pm
G'day, All.

I still can't get the stock off of my M51. Here's a question for y'all:

Is the tube holding the action spring hollow all the way down? Specifically, will any oil dropped therein be able to make it's way to the end of the stock bolt threads if I store the gun muzzle-up?

Regards,

Mark.

P.S. I had a go with a 45-70 (I think it was) lever-action rifle, today. Now *that* was fun... :)
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:02 pm
I do believe it is.
i'd recommend a penetrating oil like kroil
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:18 am
twistedoak wrote:I do believe it is.
i'd recommend a penetrating oil like kroil


Thanks, 'Oak. I'll give it a try.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:58 am
twistedoak wrote:I do believe it is.

Well, *finally*, I've managed to get the stock off. And, "yes", 'Oak - you were correct... :)

I'll have to take some photos of the top of the tube because I can see no sign of a retainer for the action spring. I'm pretty sure that youse guys are gonna groan when you see what it's like...

Now, for a spot of light relief; I've been using my Chiappa 1887 for the last year and a bit because I've broken *all* of my Ithacas and I'm having trouble emailing Ithaca. So, for your entertainment, I present a stage from our last club match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaztoqH5HFM

Bye fer now.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 3:46 pm
you need to remove the stock,then push out the 2 pins that retain the trigger pack.
the trigger pack covers up the retaining pin.
it would be located in the space right behind where the rear of the trigger guard would be.
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:58 pm
G'morning, 'Oak.

twistedoak wrote:the trigger pack covers up the retaining pin.
it would be located in the space right behind where the rear of the trigger guard would be.


Yes, I've already had the trigger pack out. I don't recall there being anything that looked like a retaining pin. I'll have to look again...

Regards,

Mark.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:11 pm
Here's a photo of the rear of my receiver. This is what it looks like. What *should* it look like?

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u52 ... bpo5nk.jpg

Regards,

Mark.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:08 pm
That is the receiver buffer. That is factory, and it is know to go bad as well as the round one in the bolt. The bolt return spring is also known to be a bit to short from the factory. If one or a combination of these three parts go bad the bolt carrier will break. The supply of bolt carriers have been exhausted as this is a fairly common problem however there has been success in welding broken ones. The other three parts are fairly easy to come my in the US and should be replaced for preventive maintenance. I however I don't know what kind of parts availability you'll find across the pond.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:23 pm
as catcher said the its the receiver buffer its in need of replacing.
it looks as it should however its old and is brittle and deformed in the contact area.it will eventually crack from impact as its not designed to take the recoil impact
if you notice the flare on the tube for the action spring its dented in several places .
it should be round also notice the small shelfs of metal directly under the buffer are deformed.
this is because of a weak action spring/bolt return spring ,its allowing the slide link to enter the tube to far and is bottoming out against the slide.
this is what causes them to crack
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:11 am
1977cutcher wrote:That is the receiver buffer. That is factory, and it is know to go bad as well as the round one in the bolt. The bolt return spring is also known to be a bit to short from the factory. If one or a combination of these three parts go bad the bolt carrier will break.

Yes, I'm aware that it's advisable to replace the buffers and spring. I was really posting to find out about the action spring retaining pin - my gun doesn't seem to have one and I can't figure out where it would go.
The supply of bolt carriers have been exhausted as this is a fairly common problem however there has been success in welding broken ones.

Luckily, our club has a good welder turned jeweller so I'm going to get him to have a go at my broken carrier after I've obtained the spare parts.
The other three parts are fairly easy to come my in the US and should be replaced for preventive maintenance. I however I don't know what kind of parts availability you'll find across the pond.

I don't think that this will be a problem, though it won't be cheap what with postage and HMRC fees.
twistedoak wrote:if you notice the flare on the tube for the action spring its dented in several places . it should be round also notice the small shelfs of metal directly under the buffer are deformed.
this is because of a weak action spring/bolt return spring ,its allowing the slide link to enter the tube to far and is bottoming out against the slide.
this is what causes them to crack

Ah, *this* is what I was after - I *thought* that that area looked a bit beat-up.

Question is, where does the spring retaining pin go? Does it fit in the area that's been, um, "re-worked"?

I'd very much appreciate a photo of this area that *hasn't* been knackered to compare it with mine.

Thanks for your replies, chaps.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:58 am
Image
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:11 pm
Ah. Yes. Yours looks just *slightly* different to mine. :)

It all becomes clear. I can now even see the retaining pin's hole in my photo even though I never spotted it when I looked at the gun - why I didn't see that before, I don't know.

I also now see why my bolt carrier is broken...

Thanks for posting the photo.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:56 pm
mine has been repaired.
I was able to work out some of the deformation ,rounded the flare out again ,actually shortened it a small bit and polished it out for smoothness again.
just remember that whatever you do you don't want to break the "seal" between the spring tube and where it passes through the receiver.
the spring plunger that sits in there should freely move in and out of the spring tube without binding
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:49 pm
twistedoak wrote:mine has been repaired.
I was able to work out some of the deformation ,rounded the flare out again ,actually shortened it a small bit and polished it out for smoothness again.
just remember that whatever you do you don't want to break the "seal" between the spring tube and where it passes through the receiver.
the spring plunger that sits in there should freely move in and out of the spring tube without binding


It'll probably be some time before I get my '51 sorted out because the '37s come first. However, I'll bare all this in mind when I *do* get around to gettin' it fixed.

Once again, thanks for your help.

Regards,

Mark.
Came late in life to shooting but is making up for lost time...
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