Nitro Barrel in 1900??

1888-1901

Moderator: ripjack13


Copper BB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:51 pm
I just bought a Crass & Nig 12 gauge SN 45930 year 1900 double that says "Nitro Barrel" on top of the barrels and does NOT appear to look Damascus AT ALL. The old man shot modern powder in it for years and a 3" shell goes right in this gun...(WILL NEVER SHOOT A 3" SHELL IN THIS GUN HOWEVER). Why are all the ones I see on the internet all Damascus and this one is not. Was it re-fitted or were they available in 1900??????????? The barrels are a bit rough inside, I guess it could have been rusty at some point. Thought about having the inside of barrels polished. Anyone know about the Nitro thing on this year gun?
Last edited by joewilson on Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

.270 WIN
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:26 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:22 pm
You could indeed have a" Nitro Barrel" on a Crass. In the later years of production of the Crass they did put Nitro barrel on some. The Crass manufacturing was done in 1901 so yours is one of the last. It still should not be shot with modern loads as it wasn't built to withstand the higher pressure. The gun probably is chambered 2 3/4 inches and you can put a 3 inch shell into it, but that loaded shell will reach the end of the chamber and if fired the expanded end of the shell has no place to go! BOOM! The barrel has most probably been rusted so you should have an experienced gunsmith check it out. The rust may have compromised the barrel. Check it out before firing. Donald

Copper BB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:47 pm
This gun has had many boxes of modern shells shot through it (2 3/4) up until about 5 or 8 years ago when it was retired. Was he just lucky that it did not blow up? How much more pressure do our standard 2 3/4 shells make compared to nitro shells back then? I figured early nitro shell were hot too. Sounds like these guns were on the edge of blowing up at times if they do not have any more safety margin than that built in. I was told long ago that a barrel marked "Nitro" would be safe if in good shape and a major brand and even though it was not recommended that even most "QUALITY" Damascus barrels were safe with LOW POWER smokeless loads. There are so many out there that love to say that this cannot be done and I want to go on FACTS, NOT second hand knowledge. Yes, many guns have blown up, but what was the REST OF THE STORY?? So if there is any ACCURATE info to be had I am looking for that please. Thanks and Happy New Year!
Last edited by joewilson on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

.410
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:42 pm
Location: Tidewater Virginia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:05 pm
I don't know if there is any "accurate scientific info" that will tell you if your gun is safe with a given load. Proof testing would be one way to find out, but if the gun 'fails' the test it will be wrecked.

While the old Ithaca guns were strong high quality items when they were made, remember that this gun is over 110 years old. The roughness you see in the barrels is probably pitting, that would compromise their strength. It would be a good idea to have it checked my a gunsmith who knows about that sort of thing.

Another argument against using regular 2 3/4" loads in this gun is the possibility of stock damage due to recoil. I doubt if the stock is as strong as it was in 1900. Ever notice how many old shotguns have cracked stocks? The use of low pressure, light recoiling shells like those made by Polywad or RTS will help prevent this kind of damage.

I have a 1902 Lewis model Ithaca (serial #62xxx) with nitro barrels. The barrels are in very good condition, but any shooting I do with it will be limited to Polywad or RST shells.

.270 WIN
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:26 pm
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:18 pm
Well you asked about the barrels and a couple of people have told you. I am 64 and when I was 12, 13 I shot my dad's old double with Damascus barrels. I shot 2 3/4 magnums even a couple of times shot 3" out of it, I was young and stupid. I thanks God it never blew up and injured me or anyone else beside me. I still have the gun and I still shoot it, (low pressure shells) and the bore looks good and I have it checked, every five or so years. My neighbor did the same thing with his old gun and blew his best friends hand off. Google shotgun blowups and then make your mind up. You can pressure test it, but as Flues16 says it will destroy it. Would you want your kid to shoot it? If my dad knew what I did back then, he never would have let me shoot again. Donald

.270 WIN
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 pm
Location: Dayton, OH
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:39 pm
First of all, welcome to the website!
It is safe to shoot modern loads in barrels marked 'Nitro', but you need to VERIFY that the chambers are indeed 2 3/4". This is done with a chamber gauge, and it would only take a competent gunsmith a couple of minutes to do it. Trying to gauge it with a loaded shell is a poor way to do it, because the chambers need to allow the space for the shell to open.
A flash in the pan, a puff of smoke, and a prayer to the great Lord on high...

Copper BB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:47 am
Thanks for all the input as I do appreciate the help. I was a bit cocked because of what local people were telling me when I got on here and I knew they did not know for sure about this subject. I just wanted to have more that "HEAR SAY". I did take this gun to a reputable local Gunsmith and he green flagged the gun for 2 3/4 low velocity loads saying it looked less rough inside than many he had seen. The forcing cone has been cut in this gun and his gauge showed it to be alright for 2 3/4 shells. I have yet to shoot it due to weather and illness. This crap going around can make a 59 year old man like me an old CRANK! Will be glad to get well! I am VERY happy to get ahold of this old gun and will report on my progress soon. Thanks to you all!
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Last edited by joewilson on Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

.270 WIN
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:26 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:51 am
Glad you got her checked out, and good for you that it is cleared to shoot. Hope you get well soon and the weather clears up. Be careful of those old hammers on your cheek, there were a few old guys with marks from having their cheeks too close when firing. It really is fun to shoot these old guns. You'll be the envy of the range.

.410
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:42 pm
Location: Tidewater Virginia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:20 am
Nice looking old gun! Glad you got it checked out and that it is good to go.
Hope you get well soon and let us know how it shoots!

.270 WIN
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 pm
Location: Dayton, OH
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:58 pm
Hope that you get to feeling better soon! :)
Thank you for not listening to all the "nay-sayers" and for having your gun checked. I would have considered it a shame to give up on a gun that still has a lot of life left in it.
Now for the next question - do you reload?
If so, I've got a sweet load that we use in our Damascus-barreled guns. Just a little over 1000fps, and will break every bird that I do my part on. :D
A flash in the pan, a puff of smoke, and a prayer to the great Lord on high...

Copper BB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:38 pm
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:18 pm
I use to reload and may start again and that sounds very interesting cause now I have a desire to find a nice Damascus side by side! I always loved the way they look! Beautiful!! I will be looking so if you hear of a good deal please let me know! Thank you!

.270 WIN
Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:38 pm
Location: Dayton, OH
PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:38 am
We shoot with a group of folks that have the rule that to compete, your gun must have either Damascus barrels or hammers, so you would be quite welcome there. :D
I am actually looking for a hammer gun so that I am seeing the same "sight picture" as with my muzzle loaders.

Here is the load that I mentioned:

Remington Gun Club hulls
CCI 209 primers
21 gr. of PB powder
Claybuster CB1100-12 wad
7/8oz of #9 shot for skeet, or 1oz #7 1/2 for trap

If I do my part, it will break them all. :lol:
A flash in the pan, a puff of smoke, and a prayer to the great Lord on high...

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